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Unstoppable: Tu Youyou
Discovery
Apr 14, 2025

Dr Julia Ravey and Dr Ella Hubber are both scientists, but it turns out there’s a lot they don’t know about the women that came before them. In Unstoppable, Julia and Ella tell each other the hidden, world-shaping stories of the scientists, engineers and innovators that they wish they’d known about when they were starting out in science. This week, a Chinese malariologist who hunted for clues in ancient medical texts to find a cure for one of the world’s deadliest diseases.

During a time of global political tension, the Chinese government set up a top-secret project to help communist troops in North Vietnam struggling with malaria. And tasked with this mission was young scientist, Tu Youyou. With a drive to help people after falling ill as a teenager and seeing the horrors of malaria firsthand, Tu turned to traditional Chinese medicine to look for potential treatments. And, after finding a hit, decided she should be the one to trial it...

Named as arguably the most important pharmaceutical discovery in the last half-century, winning the 2015 Nobel Prize, discover how one woman used an overlooked herb combined with modern science to ultimately save millions of lives.

Presenters: Ella Hubber and Julia Ravey Guest Speaker: Dr Xun Zhou Producers: Ella Hubber and Julia Ravey Assistant Producers: Sophie Ormiston, Anna Charalambou and Josie Hardy Sound Designer: Ella Roberts Production Coordinator: Ishmael Soriano Editor: Holly Squire

(Image: Chief Professor Tu Youyou, laureate of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine acknowledges applause after she received her Nobel Prize from King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden during the Nobel Prize Awards Ceremony at Concert Hall on December 10, 2015 in Stockholm, Sweden. Credit: Pascal Le Segretain/WireImage via GettyImages)

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“I shall largely speak of mice,” the paper begins “but my thoughts are on man.”

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“Death Squared: The Explosive Growth and Demise of a Mouse Population.” was published in 1973 by John Calhoun, and it detailed his increasingly bizarre research into the psychological effects of overcrowding. Over two decades he built a series of ‘rodent utopias’, where he could keep a population of rats or mice, meet all their basic food and shelter needs, but mess around with population levels. He wanted to see how they responded to having to live, cheek-by-tiny-jowl, with far more other rats than they were used to. And it wasn’t pretty. Social orders melted into chaos, rodents fought indiscriminately, or shut themselves away at the top of the enclosure. Mating orders collapsed, population numbers tanked, and eventually, every single rat was dead.

His work came at a prescient time. In the 60s and 70s, the exponentially expanding human population was a hot-button topic, and ‘population panic’ was in full swing. Alongside the expansion of cities, creeping urban sprawl, rising city-centre crime rates and 'urban sinks', there grew a concern that human living conditions were about to take an interminable dive. How would we live, with so many of us on earth? Calhoun’s work was leapt on by the press and public as a dire prediction of our own coming collapse. His rodent utopias became a subject of great interest among architects and city planners, psychologists and sociologists, and anyone fascinated by the human condition. But has his work been misunderstood?

50 years on, what lessons can we take from the work of a ground-breaking but often misunderstood scientist, in the face of a human population now exceeding 8 billion. Emily Knight explores his extraordinary work, its implications for humanity, and the possibility of a human utopia, that might not look anything like you expect.

Presented and Produced by Emily Knight in Cardiff


26min 30sec

Unstoppable: Tu Youyou

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